Curse

upier · Apr 02, 2009, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

LoL...so now its just a gambling game? How many things are people going to call XTH to make it sound ok? Ok then...if Anet released a new buyable "content pack" with a god mode ability in it would that be ok too? I am honestly tired of some of the arguments in this thread...most people are either just saying "it is here to stay deal with it" or "Anet can do whatever they want deal with it". FINE! So why don't they come out and admit to us that they changed their stance on RMT (not to mention just about everything else with the game but we'll leave it to RMT for the context of this thread) instead of hiding behind the "game content" that is XTH.

Also if you are claiming that the content is gambling. The problem with this theory is that there is no risk for the purchaser of the content. Gambling by definition has a risk and a reward, and XTH has no risk. So that theory is out the window as far as I'm concerned.

Also...if XTH is a game of "content skill", why is it that almost nobody (judging from forum posts anyways don't give me this "I can't possibly know" crap) cares about the actual skill part of the game and only cares about the reward they are going to get.

Finally, go type Xunlai Trading House into google and see the first word that pops up. You guessed it...Real Money Trading. I guess even Google agrees with me at this point.

The skill required is wiki-like.
It's not first-place-in-mATs-like no, but still - it's a skill.

And sure there is risk involved. I remember my guildy getting max 30 points - if he was REALLY lucky. If you want money and you don't plan on putting some skill into it - you're better off just buying the money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

No...RMT was against the rules until Anet made XTH.

RMT IS against the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Uh yes it does...I can spend real life money to more easily get in game luxury items.

It possibly changes WHO is able to obtain said items, but not how many people can. And since we are dealing with luxury - that's not an issue.
The point of luxury items is that certain people just can't obtain them. And that's also being achieved with the higher prices.
Even more so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

If he sucks he should get better. He shouldn't be allowed to backdoor out of it.

All the money he obtains won't make up for his lack of skill.
I don't have a problem with that.
Or is anyone actually suggesting that minis matter in PvE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Technically that is true (because the accounts should be linked and storage should be massive). But I won't go that far. I will say there is a big difference between XTH and storage (that I hope you can see by now). One is abusive and one is simply people trying to get around the game inadequacies.

Both are content that the users paid for.

And have fun on your vacation!

Shasgaliel · Apr 02, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

It is amazing. All you XTH haters. In my opinion you all are shooting in your own leg. What kind of incentive would players with 3 CE edtitions have to buy a new account if not for predictions? As long as people are buying accounts to participate in XTH the gw sales are still high enough. That helps to keep up support for GW1 and probably cover some of the finances for GW2. This is not the issue of the GW economy it is the issue of Anet and NCsoft business model.... I am really happy that there are people with 45 accounts cause that makes the live of GW1 longer and all you care is that someone has more money to buy e-peen items.... Imagine what will happen to gw1 if not all those accounts bought for XTH....

zwei2stein · Apr 02, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

It is amazing. All you XTH haters. In my opinion you all are shooting in your own leg. What kind of incentive would players with 3 CE edtitions have to buy a new account if not for predictions?

2nd account: 6 hero discordway
3rd account: 9 hero discordway

Having characters with important abusable (easy vq, farming, whatever) quests open that you can join with your main.

Mules (it is cheaper to buy account than 4 slots).

Even without XTH, Zaishen challenge faction is one easy key a day per account.

Event finale AFK farm.

HvH sync abuse.

Self running.

...

Cale Roughstar · Apr 02, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And sure there is risk involved. I remember my guildy getting max 30 points - if he was REALLY lucky.

Sorry, but that argument isn't really valid. Risk denotes that a chance is being taken, the chance of losing something is undertaken in the hopes of achieving something greater. While your guildy may not be good at it, he is not risking anything by making predictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you want money and you don't plan on putting some skill into it - you're better off just buying the money.

Again, this argument doesn't hold up. After 10 seconds on Google, it is fairly clear that the average price of GW gold is $7(US) for 100k. Guild Wars accounts, bought solely for the purpose of predictions, (Prophecies only) can be found for around $10(US) each. Therefore, it would take your guildy ~6 months to make his money back, after which he is doing better than had he simply bought gold.

($10/$7 = 1.429*100 = 142.9 (he needs ~143k in order to make his $10 back). 143k/24k(per month) = 5.9583 months.

Of course, most people will actually make their money back much faster.

That being said, I really enjoy the XTH. I have 5 accounts (3 bought for Zkeys) and the free money really does add up. I don't like the inflation that it is causing in game, and I have lost some money because of it. But my net gain is still higher with the added zkeys. And hey, who DOESN'T like free money?

go cubs · Apr 02, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Ok so for me...I have 9 accounts...ive only bought 3 and only 2 were bought for zkeys only. The rest I got from friends for storage and stuff and I don't Mind getting100-200 zkeys a month

As for xth and rmt....rmt requires no skill...$7=100k

For xth you have to pick teams every month...and you can either get lots of zkeys or little zkeys....it still allows money but you have to do it every month...so it's not directly rmt but it's bordering it

Amnel Ithtirsol · Apr 02, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

RMT IS against the rules.

Non-regulated (i.e. non-XTH, where ANet don't get the profit) RMT still is, yes.

snaek · Apr 02, 2009, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And sure there is risk involved. I remember my guildy getting max 30 points - if he was REALLY lucky.

so the risk is instead of winning big, you win small? ouch, what a bummer...i hate winning small.

Ate of DK · Apr 02, 2009, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Incredible, people can QQ about something that is for free?

trankle · Apr 02, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Finally, go type Xunlai Trading House into google and see the first word that pops up. You guessed it...Real Money Trading. I guess even Google agrees with me at this point.

Heh, that's a pretty cool trick. "Real Money Trading" also appears if you put in some other incorrect acronyms of XTH, like Xunlai Trading Hut.

It would be even cooler if it happened when you googled what XTH actually stands for: Xunlai Tournament House. But it doesn't. Oh well.

Still, I like your strategy: put in a fake XTH acronym, google it, and use the search results as as argument.

So, I just googled Xunlai Tickling House. OMG everyone! XTH is a secret foot fetish ring!

Bof · Apr 02, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

"As long as people are buying accounts to participate in XTH the gw sales are still high enough. That helps to keep up support for GW1 and probably cover some of the finances for GW2."

NCSoft has already put up all the money needed to cover the cost of GW2. The extra money that ANet gets from the XTH accounts needs to be put into GW1 to make more content. ANet needs to learn its user base better if they truly want to earn maximum profit.

Yawgmoth · Apr 03, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

They could just as well add it to the ingame store - for every $20 you pay you automatically receive a random amount of Tournament Reward Points (50-150). That would surely get them even more money... but that's against their business model.

Now only people completely blind don't see they're already doing that with the XTH!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Incredible, people can QQ about something that is for free?

Simply because Free is wrong, especially here.
It's giving meaningful rewards which normally take significant effort = it greatly reduces the value of rewards for those who really earn them.

It really sucks to have such a bs system ruin the value of rewards for all kinds of pvp, from RA to the winners of monthly ATs prizes... all hurt by the bazillions of FREE RPS given away to undeserving people.

Martin Alvito · Apr 03, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Incredible, people can QQ about something that is for free?

A mother bakes a cake for her five boys. She gives four fifths of the cake to one boy, and divides the remainder of the cake among the other four boys. The other four children ask, "Why are we getting so much less?" The mother replies, "Because he is the favorite son."

Convince me that you wouldn't QQ if you were one of the four children getting less cake.

Here, the favorite son is the one that is spending lots of money buying accounts from ANet. Other players that would prefer to not spend hundreds of dollars on accounts are upset.

Why is it hard to see that an inequitable distribution of free stuff is going to make people upset? If you don't support selling zkeys to players through the in-game store, you shouldn't support XTH. Simple.

Earth · Apr 03, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I don't see how anyone could get upset because someone else has more money than them in a game... Lighten up people.

Michman · Apr 03, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Inequitable distribution of free stuff?

Joe Palooka QQer has just as much right to run out and purchase multiple copies of GW as anyone else. Because they choose not to do so they whine about how unfair it is.

And Earth your absolutely right about those QQing because others have more money. Unless you started this game 4 years ago you'll always have less money than the powertraders and those that have farmed for years. Get use to it.

Martin Alvito · Apr 03, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

Joe Palooka QQer has just as much right to run out and purchase multiple copies of GW as anyone else. Because they choose not to do so they whine about how unfair it is.

That's not a game that I care to play, thanks. Changing the rules to a "pay for stuff" system three years into a game's run is ridiculous. Full disclosure up front so I can opt out is fine. Bait-and-switch is a crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

And Earth your absolutely right about those QQing because others have more money. Unless you started this game 4 years ago you'll always have less money than the powertraders and those that have farmed for years. Get use to it.

Doesn't bother me when other players have more money than me. It does bother me when those players didn't have to invest time and effort to get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArenaNet Real Money Trading Policy

Real-money trading also upsets the game's economy. Many players spend countless hours of game time earning gold so they can purchase skills, weapon upgrades, or runes to improve their characters. However, regular players cannot compete with the huge bot networks run on hundreds of computers that real-money trading companies use to constantly farm the game. These bot farms can make it nearly impossible for casual and hard-core players alike to reap the benefits of the time they spend in the game.

Substitute: "players buying dozens of accounts to play XTH" for "bot networks". This is the same problem.

Michman · Apr 03, 2009, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

That's not a game that I care to play, thanks. Changing the rules to a "pay for stuff" system three years into a game's run is ridiculous. Full disclosure up front so I can opt out is fine. Bait-and-switch is a crime.

Doesn't bother me when other players have more money than me. It does bother me when those players didn't have to invest time and effort to get it.

Substitute: "players buying dozens of accounts to play XTH" for "bot networks". This is the same problem.

Perhaps you should read the EULA and Terms of Service that you agreed to. It explictly states Anet can change the game anyway they choose. Even the box says "game experience may change during online play".

No you said it yourself your not willing to spend more money like others have. And they are investing time and effort. Just purchasing 10 copies of GW gets you nothing. You still have to actually accumulate the wealth. Is it quicker? Sure. A choice they made that you wouldn't.

XTH and bots are so totally different I'm surprised that you would even try to compare them. XTH doesn't hack or steal accounts, XTH isn't dumping massive amounts of gold into the economy from gold sellers. XTH according to Anet wasn't created as a way to sell games. Until you or someone else has a smoking gun that proves otherwise it's just another conspiracy theory.

Martin Alvito · Apr 03, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

Perhaps you should read the EULA and Terms of Service that you agreed to. It explictly states Anet can change the game anyway they choose. Even the box says "game experience may change during online play".

Man, you XTH defenders always come back to the EULA. Two points:

1) A contract such as the EULA can't supercede existing law. You can't draw up a contract that makes a bait-and-switch legal. Now, I wouldn't have standing here because I would have difficulty proving material harm. That's what gets them off the hook, not the EULA.
2) I'm not even debating the legality of the XTH. What I'm arguing is that XTH will have long-run effects that are unhealthy for the game. Further, you can observe the beginnings of those effects right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

No you said it yourself your not willing to spend more money like others have. And they are investing time and effort. Just purchasing 10 copies of GW gets you nothing. You still have to actually accumulate the wealth. Is it quicker? Sure. A choice they made that you wouldn't.

OK, so XTH isn't equivalent to buying stuff directly from ANet. It's equivalent to paying ANet a bunch of money to multiply your drop rate by a massive factor. Explain how this is different in overall effect?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

XTH and bots are so totally different I'm surprised that you would even try to compare them. XTH doesn't hack or steal accounts, XTH isn't dumping massive amounts of gold into the economy from gold sellers.

Of course XTH doesn't hack or steal accounts. It does dump massive amounts of in-game cash into the economy. All that denominating the in-game cash in zkeys instead of gold does is change the way prices rescale.

For that matter: dupers had to invest time to dupe items, and they didn't hack or steal accounts. So duping isn't OK, but XTH is? Alternately, it would be OK to buy a license from ANet to dupe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

XTH according to Anet wasn't created as a way to sell games. Until you or someone else has a smoking gun that proves otherwise it's just another conspiracy theory.

What makes you think that I believe that XTH was created to sell games? It doesn't have to have been. XTH may have been created to drive interest in PvP, but ANet discovered that it had the beneficial side effect of selling games. So they refuse to remove it despite observable harm to the game.

The truth you hear may not be the truth you think you hear!

Grj · Apr 03, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Substitute: "players buying dozens of accounts to play XTH" for "bot networks". This is the same problem.

There's a distint difference, the money was going directly to the RMT, now the moneys going directly to anet. Its sure its not as simple as that tho

I guess anet's making these decisions to test stuff for gw2 and what better to see how far you can push things with a player base with a game thats gone past its high point. It may not be selling in game gold via the store, but damn its nearly as close to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

Perhaps you should read the EULA and Terms of Service that you agreed to. It explictly states Anet can change the game anyway they choose. Even the box says "game experience may change during online play".

Excellent, so whenever you or anyone has an issue with anything with this game read the above paragraph and be quiet?

Teh Nox · Apr 03, 2009, 10:37 PM // 22:37

XTH is a good idea generally, but u just get to much for it...
something like 20k / month /account should be maximum

moriz · Apr 03, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

Excellent, so whenever you or anyone has an issue with anything with this game read the above paragraph and be quiet?

correct. to uninstall GW, go to control panel, add/remove program, select guild wars, and press the uninstall button.